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Mammoths, orphans of Earth quartenary paleo climate science
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Andre



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Germany - The Nederlands

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NileQueen wrote:

My point is, why wasn't there sea ice in the Mammoth heyday?
We know that sealevel was 300-400 feet lower,
salinity would have been higher
and coastlines then would have been extended outward from where they are today because of the lower sealevels.
I wonder if there are mammoth fossils at the bottom of the Arctic sea?
Much of Alaska and the northern coast of Canada was also ice free wasn't it?
At any rate, the Arctic Ocean would have been smaller in surface area, shallower in depth and would have had higher salinity.


Right, there is the cutting edge of Quatenary earth sciences. It's clear that we have a long way to go.

doei.



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Andre



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Germany - The Nederlands

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've showed the thread and forum to Dick Mol. He wants to join the fun and also make useful contributions on Pleistocene mammals.

However on the moment he is extremely busy with projects in Russia, USA and Greece. And the few days in between he is travelling from meetings to events to appointments. There is a huge Homotherium exhibit in the Rotterdam Natural Museum about the last Sabre tooth cats in Europe which requires most of his attention at the moment.

So no time for internet at the moment but in a few months he'll join and ge'ts us the real first hand information.
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Latecommer



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Central California

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears to me that one of our controls is wrong. Either we are mistaken about the global nature of the last glaciation, or the radio carbon data is wrong. Is there another possible explaination that I miss here?
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Andre



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Germany - The Nederlands

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latecommer wrote:
It appears to me that one of our controls is wrong. Either we are mistaken about the global nature of the last glaciation, or the radio carbon data is wrong. Is there another possible explaination that I miss here?


Seeing the work on stratification, counting annual layers of ice in the ice cores, tree rings in fossil tree records and lake sediment layers and they all match with a very small error margin for calibrating carbon dates makes me quite confident about it's reliabilty.

Glacial events also have been dated along various lines with more or less consistent results also giving relatively good confidence.

Therefore, yes I am convinced that we need to find the missing player. I think it's under our feet. Weird things are happening over there.
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Baywax



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 113
Location: Pacific West Coast

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andre,

Your thoughts about the changes taking place during the end of the LGM and how they may have rendered conditions unfavorable for the Mammoths are supported by something someone said on a Climate blog... I'll post the link after the quote:

Quote:
The ONLY relevant situation regarding the glaciers within China is that they are melting NOW, and that is ALL that is unique. At some point within the recent past the 'Ice-point Altitude' was around 2000 meters, perhaps even 1500 meters. Now it is rising above 2500 meters, but then CLIMATE is 'rising' from a Glaciation event and has been doing so for ~20,000 years. At that time of around 20,000 years a go the 'Polar adapted' fauna would have had a larger 'habitat range', but 'NOW" as CLIMATE 'rises away' from that Glaciation event, the reversion of 'Polar preferred' habitat will increase in MORE regions also so there WILL be attrition of overly adapted fauna populations.

This IS a natural AND ongoing process.


http://illconsidered.blogspot.com...but-glaciers-are-not-melting.html
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Andre



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Germany - The Nederlands

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, actually there are a few conceptions. mammoths did not care a lot about temperature, but more about the isostope: steppe and steppe only. Warm or cold would not matter. They were obvious grazers and the large tusks would have been very inconvenient for manouvring in between trees. They might have lived on the Canadian praries or Mongolian steppes nowaday. As long as winter snowfall would not cover the grasses they would be okay.

Also from the blog, numerous climate fallacies. It's not about if the glaciers are expanding or shrinking. It's not about the cause for that, either or both warming or aridity. The climate discussion is whether or not increasing concentrations of radiative gasses are causing considerable warming. Shrinking glaciers do not proof anything about a possible cause of glacier behavior. Some glaciers may grow in warmer conditions as it also facilitate more snow fall.



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