Earth Sciences Forum

Latecommer · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 45 Location: Central California

Mark Jackson, an atmospheric chemist from Stanford University,has recently released a report on the effects of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) on the atmoshpere.

http://pubs. acs.org/subscrib e/journals/ esthag-w/ 2007/apr/ science/ee_ ethanol.html

In his study he found a slightly higher rate of Ozone polution which would potentially cause an increase in asthmetic problems. He speculates that there would be an increase in deaths related to such respiratory illnesses.

comments?

Doug

I am having trouble getting the site adress to transport from climatesceptics. Can you help Andre?

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scpg02 · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sacramento

Ethanol was pushed by the corn lobby. They used the fervor over environmental conservation to bolster their argument.

Latecommer · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 45 Location: Central California

Thanks Andre...your advice worked..kind of. I have the adress correct but it is not clickable. Must have messed up somewhere.

See...Im not just a latecommer to Geology, but to technology in general :(
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Andre · Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject:

Doug,

Your browser had decided to put in spaces at random.

This should work:

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/jou.../2007/apr/science/ee_ethanol.html

Baywax · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Pacific West Coast

Baywax · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Pacific West Coast

I was in traffic with a Ford Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle today. Its totally unnoticable except for the decals all over it declaring it to be a FCV. Its like the design for the Ford Focus sedan.

There was water coming out of the exhaust and it drove silent but powerful. The city has its emblem on it as does the Ca. Govt. along with just about every company that's putting effort into the endevour.

The "hydrogen highway" is an idea that started with former Prime Minister of Canada, Paul Martin who pitched it to Arnie, Governor of California. The idea is to have H stations dotting the I5 up to at least as far as Whistler Village in BC. This is about 1500 miles and a small stretch for Fuel Cell kind. Each station, at some point in the future, should cost as little as $250,000 usd to build and begin operation. Each vehicle probably costs the same or more.... but, so did a lap-top at one time.

If Ford is finally able to see past the next 15 years and latch on to a technology that promises to be the next unoffensive propellant of the future.... that's great. That will give Ford a double whammy in history: perfecting the car and assembly line and perfecting the technology behind the Fuel Cell Vehicle.
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scpg02 · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sacramento

You know why Arnold is pushing the hydrogen highway don't you? His environmental policy was written by Robert Kennedy Jr. who has major ties to the NRDC. We get our hydrogen from natural gas and Arnold, Kennedy and the NRDC have investments in natural gas.

A few years ago natural gas prices tripled. I don't know what they have done since but we are not building pipelines and we won't allow the offshore hubs to ship it in. Where does that leave us if we start using it for hydrogen production? Shortages, higher prices and major money flowing into Arnold's, Kennedy's and the NRDC's pockets.

BTW, the NRDC is responsible for bringing us MTBE. Clinton gave an executive order absolving them of liability.

Baywax · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Pacific West Coast

What is the MTBE?

Hydrogen can be extracted from pretty well anything. Methane, ethanol, water, nickle plating process, there's 500 chemical processes that generate hydrogen. If its the energy it takes to do so that is a concern, solar and wind are cheap, re: used to be free!.

I think there is a misconception with the whole hydrogen thing. Its not being used as a fuel. Its generating an electrical current when it passes through a membrane. This is why its called a fuel cell battery. There is also the possibility of renewable hydrogen so that the system becomes closed requiring little input.

scpg02 · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sacramento

MTBE

Here is a link to a friend of mine's post discussing the CA energy crisis and the scam being run. He uses MTBE as an example of how the scam works and even briefly covers why Kyoto was pushed so hard. Long but interesting read if you can get around the feeling of coming into the middle of a conversation.

His post is still relevant when you start talking about global warming and the money being used to push it etc. I show people this so they will understand the politics behind what is going on.

Baywax · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Pacific West Coast

So is the big conspiracy to make a bunch of money and spend it in the remaining but shrinking little reserves of habitable areas on earth until there's nowhere left.... then die?... Sounds like it.

I've worked for private environmental assessment firms that are used by mining companies to stave off the govt. and its regulations. Hello... big money under the table, great big money.

But some of the benefits for the affected communities look great on the surface. Once you calculate the long term benefits, there's really nothing in all of this for anyone... with the exception of a few Rockafeller-sized bank accounts "off-shore". The same is true with corn etc... agriculture for Ethanol. Short term it looks good for the producer... long term... we're driving around using up 7 people's dinners every day in our tank, funding and supporting genetic modification techniques, and the complete ruin of bee colonies and naturally bred corn plants through cross pollination and neonicotinoids-based pesticides...